Friday, October 30, 2009

Yeshua's Shabbat


Among Christians, there's occasionally some debate around how we are to "do" the Sabbath. Is it Saturday? Is it Sunday? Is it imperative that we rest on that day? That we worship at a church building? Do those Old Testament laws apply to us?

Oh the dilemma. What's a 21st century Jesus follower to do?

Numerous New Testament scriptures point out how Christians are now "grafted in" with God's chosen people. Peter and Paul also seem to point out that it isn't imperative that Gentile Christians follow every law within the Torah, and that one day isn't any different from another. Jesus, of course, was occasionally chastised by leaders for things like healing on the Sabbath, or picking a piece or two of grain to eat on the Sabbath.

However, we also believe that Jesus came to FULFILL the teachings and covenant of the Old Testament, not to do away with them. There is a lot to learn and to understand from the Old Testament laws and from Jewish culture of the first century.

Keren Hannah Pryor, as a part of her "Appointments With God" series for the Center of Judaic-Christian Studies, has written a very insightful piece on The Sabbath Day. Insightful, and long. Too long to copy in here, in fact, and too long for me to expect many of our delightful unChurch blog readers to actually click on that link and take in the entire thing.

But I do encourage you to try. Go ahead, give it a shot.

For those of you that cheated and didn't go read the entire thing (eh, I had a tough time reading the whole thing myself), I'll here is a slightly abridged version, where I cut out about 70% of the stuff in the middle:
    The original concept of a Sabbath day was instituted by God Himself at Creation when He saw that all He had made was good and He ‘rested.’ The Hebrew word used in the Genesis account, shin-bet-tav, which also reads Shabbat, literally means ‘to cease.’ He ceased from His work of creation. This unique seventh day, marked by the setting of the sun on the sixth day, yom ha’shishi, was designated by God as kadosh – holy.

    He appointed this day of Shabbat as a time that was to be set apart for His holy purposes. This informs us that this seventh day of rest is the Creator’s intention for His entire universe, particularly for those “made in His image” whom He loves with a perfect love.
    ...

    The Christian observance of ‘The Lord’s Day’ on Sunday has much in common with Shabbat. The first disciples and followers of Yeshua attended synagogues on Shabbat (e.g., Paul, Acts 18:4). Gentiles who had come to know the God of Israel through the “good news” - the evangelion (Gr.) – and were thereby “grafted in” to the olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:24), were exhorted to attend the communal services on Shabbat, “where Moses [the Torah] is read every Sabbath” (Acts 15:20) in order to learn more of God’s Word and His ways.

    We know that the first disciples, the “early Church”, adhered to Shabbat and the biblical calendar. The question is raised, “When was the present day Christian ‘Sunday’ instituted as the day of worship?” The first law commanding Sunday rest was issued by the Emperor Constantine in March, 321A.D. His decree was worded: “On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in the cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.”

    In the year 386 A.D. under the auspices of the Roman Catholic Church, Theodosius I forbade litigation on Sunday and established the practice: “No person shall demand payment of either a public or private debt [on Sunday].”

    Theodosius II, in the year 425 A.D., forbade all amusements, both circuses and theaters on Sunday. Gradually all quarters of Christianity transferred observance of the day of rest from the seventh day to the first day. Today most Christians are of the attitude, “What difference does it make? A day is a day.” The answer to that lies in the heart of each individual in the framework of their communion with God.

    Following the removal of the followers of Jesus from the Jewish community and the Hebraic framework of worship, a schism was created that would prove to be ever-widening through the centuries that followed. However, certain elements of the “day of rest” would endure and the central goals have remained similar for Christians and Jews alike. The Sabbath is a day to focus on the Almighty, to seek His face and purposes; also to set aside the regular activities and concerns of the week and to find refreshment and, if possible, to spend time with family and friends.

    This was a day that was observed nationally in Western Christian culture, just as the Shabbat is in Israel today. It saddens one to observe that the modern popular culture, with its focus and emphasis on materialism and the physical dimension of life, and 24/7 commercialism, has forfeited and ignored the gift that God has provided for both spiritual and physical health – the Shalom of Shabbat.

    Let our prayer be: "Father we call the Sabbath a delight, and the holy day of the Lord honorable. We look to You in love and gratitude for Your blessing and and provision, and for Your grace, peace and light bestowed upon us in the Prince of Peace, the Sar Shalom, Yeshua ha'Mashiach, Jesus our Messiah. Amen.
My "Sabbath" often involves getting up much earlier than what I'd like, spending 5+ hours in a church building, going out to eat with friends and family, watching football, taking a nap, and then going back to church for a couple more hours. All of this, of course, begs the question -- Am I really "delighting" in the Lord's Sabbath?

32 comments:

Craig said...

Thanks for this, Scott.

It has been said that Jews have kept the Sabbath, and the Sabbath has kept the Jews. . .

I am reminded of Lauren Winner's book, Mudhouse Sabbath, in which she delves into the ways that Christianity is enriched by its Jewish roots (and Shabbat is first in line). Among other things, she says:

"You are commanded, principally, to be joyful and restful on Shabbat. . . Married couples even get rabbinical brownie points for having sex on the Sabbath." So, you know, you could use that for motivation, if you need to. . . ;)

I'd also recommend Abraham Joshua Heschel's book, The Sabbath for a rich Jewish treatment of the topic.

In our community, we've had a 'common' observance of The Lord's Day virtually from our beginning (altho individual observance of it varies widely). In our family, we have found it to be very spiritually enriching, and over time, our kids have come to take it for one of those 'givens' that 'defines' the life of our family. . .

The point, of course, is to focus our 'rest' on 'resting in the Lord' - setting aside some dedicated, undistracted time for Him. Prayer, Scripture study, family activities, even nature walks, have all been among the things that have enriched our Lord's Days. And of course, communal worship fits the pattern (I have occasionally - OK, more than merely 'occasionally' - needed to remind myself that it's The Lord's Day, and not 'the NFL's day').

I could wander off on a dozen different tangents, but I think I'll leave it at this for now, and see how the conversation develops. . .

Joe B said...

Good article and good comment. It reminds us that loving and following after God are not a matter of fulfilling requirements, but of faith and devotion.

When Sabbath is mentioned, people immediately turn to deliberating what compliance it requires. How shall one observe the sabbath?

Quit. Stop. Cease.

The whole principle of Sabbath is perverted from the get-go. The Sabbath is not a sacrifice we give to God, it is a gift he gives to us.

Among people who bear the image of God, this principle of Sabbath rest permeates our beings and emanates from our doings.

We are not proving something to God, his is proving something through us. We can afford to rest.

Quit. Stop. Cease. It's not like you can really do this wrong.

Craig said...

"The Sabbath is not a sacrifice we give to God, it is a gift he gives to us. "

Exactly.

And the fitting response to gifts from God is gratitude.

The thing is, we get all crossed up over stuff like that. Any number of things we could (should) be doing out of gratitude, or out of love for God, we end up parsing them in terms of 'rules'.

Two senses of the word 'ought', maybe. . . "We 'ought' to be grateful to God for the gifts He gives us" (which is true) morphs into "We 'ought' to do thus-and-such, because that's the rule." (which misses the point). . .

Joe B said...

What was the original sin?

Hint: It involves "the knowledge of good and evil"

ElderChild said...

israel kept seventh day sabbath and yet?

today it seems not only has time been altered but it is quite apparent that the seventh day in the "imag"ined israel of this day is not the seventh day on the other side of this wicked, evil world.......

what matters today is Truth above all tradition and Truth is, as there is Only ONE True G-D so also there is Only ONE:

"Pure And Undefiled Religion"

"Pure religion and undefiled before G-D The Father is this, to visit the fatherless (those children who know not their Father, HE WHO is The Only True G-D, Father{Creator} of ALL) and widows(those who have not "experienced The Messiah and The Power{Our Father} that raised Him from among the dead") in their affliction and to keep oneself uncontaminated by the world......." (James 1:27)

Simply, all other religion is impure and defiled.......

And notice that "pure and undefiled" religion is "oneself(individual)", a Brother or Sister doing The Will of Our Father, led of The Holy, Set Apart, Spirit.......

Simply, corporate "religion" is pagan and of this wicked world.......

And "Brothers and Sisters" is not "religion", for what are Brothers and Sisters if not Family?

Would not The Family of The Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL, "The Body of The Messiah", be much closer than a natural, fleshly family?

And so it is that most of those who have chosen to follow The Messiah on The Narrow Way have had to "forsake their natural father, mother, brothers, sisters" and all others who will not follow The Messiah, because they "love this wicked world and their own life in and of it".......

The Brethren of The Messiah have "forsaken all for The Kingdom of Heaven's sake".......

Father Help! and HE does.......

What is declared to be "religion" today is truly the devil's playground.......

Simply, Faith will not create a system of religion.......

Hope is there would be those who take heed unto The Call of The Only True G-D to "Come Out of her, MY people"!

For they will "Come Out" of this wicked world(babylon) and it's systems of religion, and enter into "the glorious Liberty of The Children of The Only True G-D".

And so it is that they will no longer be of those who are destroying the earth(land, air, water, vegetation, creatures)" and perverting that which is Spirit(Light, Truth, Life, Love, Peace, Hope, Faith, Mercy, Grace, Miracles, etc.).......

Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this world and it's systems of religion, for "the WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one" (1John5:19) indeed and Truth.......

Truth is never ending.......

Craig said...

OK, Joe. . . cryptic (or maybe 'socratic') as always. . . I wanted to give others a chance to chime in before I rang in again, but now it seems I'd better hurry before things get completely out of hand. . .

I can think of a few different directions you might be heading, but I have a nagging suspicion that whatever I say, it's not gonna be quite what you're looking for. . . ;)

Of course, the 'classical' answer would be along the lines of 'Disobedience' (as CS Lewis explores in 'Perelandra') - God gave Adam & Eve free reign in the Garden, except for one thing, and of course, that's what they couldn't keep from doing.

Given the discussion so far, it's also possible to cast it in terms of 'Ingratitude' - given the whole Garden, their focus turned to what they couldn't have, rather than the bounty they'd been given.

Or maybe 'Discontentment'; rather than rest in God's goodness, they step outside for something 'more interesting'. . .

And all these things, taken together, certainly amount to a failure to love God as befits His Nature. . .

Those are my thoughts off the top of my head, as I sit here. So - what did I miss?

Joe B said...

Yo Craigster. Each thing you listed is absolutely right, and they are good standard answers. Just they're a little (unnecessarily) general, where the scripture is pretty specific.

Elder Child will like what comes next.

The significance of their act goes beyond merely that it was forbidden. The act was eating a certain thing--the thing that brings forth death. That thing had a name.

It was the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (henceforth, Tree #2.) It is the thing we rely on to make us righteous, and to make everything okay. It is the Law, in the broadest sense of the word. It is the thing that reduces the gift of God to a checklist of beliefs and actions that we suppose will add up to what is freely springing from the tree of life.

Elder Child would say that "tree number two" is Religion, and he is not wrong.

Apart from Tree #2, sin is not reckoned. Apart from Tree #2 we were alive, then Tree #2 came, and we died (Ro 7). Tree #2 produces all manner of evil desires in us. It provoked Cain to slay Abel, and it provoked the Pharisees, Sadducees, and sinners to slay Jesus.

But the Tree of Life can't just won't stay dead. And wherever the river flows, the tree of life grows.

I love being immortal. This so rocks.

Joe B said...

Hey Elder Child, it's been a while since you came around, nice to hear from you.

Could you remind me of something? It seems you have an objection to the way the Christian Religion conceives Christ and his divinity...could you describe that for me again?

Love and Peace

Craig said...

Right. . . I knew that. . . ;)

And honestly, in the present context, it's not even terribly mysterious. The fundamental attitude of the culture we live in is 'wanting to be like God'. . . Or, more like 'wanting to be God'. . .

ElderChild said...

It is the pagan catholic/christian systems of religion and their "imag"ined 'jesus' who are impure and defiled because they were "imag"ined by the likes of calvin, luther, simons, and a multitude of other catholic pagan priests.......

And sadly, pagans liken unto you have declared James 1:27 to be of no consequence for you yet abide in that which "waxed old and vanished away" with the destruction of the natural, earthly, kingdom centered in jerusalem.

And you do not believe that Paul was taken up in the clouds to be with The Only True GOD, Father of ALL, and The Messiah at the time of the end of of the old and The Beginning of the NEW!

2 Tim 4:17-18 - "i was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me unto His Heavenly Kingdom: to Whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."

You have no common union with The Spirit of Truth, and so it is that your bread is moldy and filled with worms and your wine is but the blood of all The Faithful who were martyred as they resisted the heresies of pagan catholicism and her harlot christian daughters.......

And those today, who are liken unto the murderers(calvin) and destroyers of old, still seek to kill those who have received "the love of The Truth", however rather than to kill the body, which of old brought others to The Faith, today they seek to kill The Spirit of Truth within The Faithful.

And the primary weapon used by "the father of lies" and his pagan catholic and christian systems of religion is the multitude of lies that are spewed forth by the thousands upon thousands of cathloic and christian pagan cults, each one shouting "lo, here is The Messiah".......

A multiple choice of "churches", and if one chooses anything but "none of the above", may The Only True GOD have Mercy on their soul.......

Thankfully The Miracle that is deliverance is Alive!

And The NEW Covenant IS!

The Messiah, is "The Light" of the old and The New Covenant,

"The Light" which enlightens every man born into the world"....... "

"Let There Be Light" and there was Light".......

LIGHT begot Light.......

And as for the 'Jew' of The NEW Covenant.

Jer 31:31-37 "Behold, the days come, says YHWH, that I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE TIME THAT I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO BRING THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT FOR THEY BROKE THAT COVENANT, although I was an husband unto them, says YHWH: (Thankfully no longer natural "fathers" but YHWH, "Our Father" in "the NEWness of The Spirit not the letter")

But this shall be the NEW covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says YHWH, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts(not in stone, but in their heart consciousness); and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be MY people. ("Come Out of her, MY people"! Come out of this world and it's systems of religion)

(Continued)

ElderChild said...

And every man shall no longer teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, "Know YHWH", for they shall all know ME, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says YHWH: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Thus says YHWH, which gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divides the sea when the waves thereof roar; YHWH of hosts is HIS name:

If those ordinances depart from before ME, says YHWH, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before ME for ever.

Thus says YHWH; If Heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, says YHWH."

The NEW Covenant established The Truth that, "he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, whose circumcision is that of the flesh, he is a Jew who is one inwardly, whose circumcision is of the heart" as he was immersed in, of, by and through The Holy, Set Apart Spirit that is of The Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL.......

And The NEW Spiritual Israel?

"A Holy nation".......

"A nation of kings and priests" indeed and Truth, and the Spiritual Jews are "strangers and pilgrims on the earth" whose "citizenship(Life) is in Heaven".

They are not of this wicked, evil world and it's systems of religion because they have taken heed unto The Call of The Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL to "Come out of her, MY people".......

And the NEW Spiritual Jew is exhorted to "set their affections on things above, Heavenly things" and not be of those "whose god is their bellies, and whose glory is in their shame, because they mind earthly things".......

Sadly, there are multitudes who profess a belief in The Messiah with their mouth only for they "love this world and it's things".......

All such will hear those woe filled words, "Depart from Me all you workers of iniquity".......

Thankfully The Brethren of The Messiah have their citizenship(Life) in Heaven" for they are "A Holy nation" of "kings and priests", all of whom are thankful that, that which was "decaying and waxing old" DID "vanish away" with the destruction of the natural, earthly kingdom centered in jerusalem.

"THY Kingdom" DID "Come", and IS, indeed and Truth.......

No longer old, natural, earthly and temporal, The NEW is Spiritual, Heavenly and Eternal.......

And so it is that yesterday, today and if there be a tomorrow, that the chosen ones, the elect, the Jew of The New Covenant is Spiritual, Heavenly and Eternal.......

All Thanks, Praise and Glory Be Unto The Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL.......

ElderChild said...

Answer in PM?

You wrote, "I" consider, that you are not right. "I" am assured. "I" can prove it.

Simply, The "I" Must Die!

In as much as i can 'see',
That which is of the 'I' in me,

So it is i yearn, and to Our Father cry,
For deliverance from all that is of the 'I'.

The 'I', born of "imag"ination and selfish desire,
As lust, greed, and pride, stoked a consuming fire ;-(

A fire burning out of control, as 'I' leads the way,
It's smoke concealing the fleshly mind that leads one astray ;-(

Yet even in the smoke, searing heat, and blindness of 'sight',
Truth can pierce the blackness of darkness, revealing "The Light"!

And nothing can hide from "The Light", so "Light" reveals the "I",
Allowing one to "see" clearly, and clearly the "I" must die!

But to live, yet die, seems an impossible task,
And so we need of "Our Father", the impossible to ask.

Help me to "deny myself(die to self)(die to 'I')" Father!

And as HE Helps, HE reveals more and more of "The Selfless One", The One Who leads His Brethren on "The Way to The Truth of The Life". He Who was, and is The Messiah, The Son of The Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL!

And as The Messiah desired above all else, so also will His Brethren desire above all else, "Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done".......

The poem above was begun in Creel, Chih, Mexico in '92, a time when i sought to live and experience a simple and spiritual life and it was there that i received and embraced Simplicity. Left Mexico in '93, yet returned in '04. Then on 1/26/05 the poem was completed, and 'completion' is near for each and every one of us. And for "the poor and needy", thankfully so.......

Translated, "corruptible to incorruptible" indeed and Truth.......

Home at last.......

Forever free from The "I".......

All Thanks, Praise and Glory Be Unto "Our Father".......

And while there is breath(spirit) there is hope many will "see",
"see" The "I" for what it is, and then desire to be set free!

And that Spirit that was in The Messiah shall "set you free, free indeed"!

So, There Is Hope!

And Miracles do happen!
Hope is there would be those who experience The Miracle that is receiving "a love of The Truth" for they will "see" The Light that is The Messiah, they will "see" that The Life is of The Spirit(not seen with the natural eye), and most certainly not of the flesh or fleshly mind("I").......

Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(darkness) that is of this world and it's systems of religion, for "the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one"(1Jn5:19) indeed and Truth.......

Truth is never ending.......

(Returned to this place called the u.s. of a. in June of '05, yet a return to the simplicity that is rural Mexico would be welcomed, however, i realize that in all things it must be "Father(Creator) not my will, But THY Will Be Done.......)

Joe B said...

Sorry I can't understand so much of what you wrote (or maybe I just can't understand what your point is in writing it.)

I am very curious what you are like in real life. I know some people who are decent and loving and humble in person, then they are ranting, road-raged nuts when they go Internet.

It seems like you said I am (or we are) pagan? What brought that on? Is there anybody you do like, or do you hate everyone in the name of G_d?

ElderChild said...

Quite clear that you never have received "a love of The Truth" for your own conscience condemns you.

i do hate lies and premeditated liars and so it is that that i despise those who would propagate the three-headed pagan catholic/christian g-d, not those who believe it, but those who would propagate such a pagan belief.......

Because of your seared conscience you most likely also believe that The Messiah 'hated' the pharisee's when in Love He called them "whited sepulchures full of dead men's bones".......

Yes, He Loved them enough to tell them The Truth even though He knew they sought to kill Him.......

And you, liken unto the pharisee's also seek to kill The Truth for it is quite apparent that you have a "love for this world and your own life in, and of it" just as they did ;-(

However, there is hope!

For Miracles do happen.......

Redacticus said...

Because he rails against men rather than teaches to them, because he condemns men without cause, and because he cannot articulate what it is he believes, I do therefore pronounce Elder Child anathema and cast him out of the scriptorium of unChurch Abbey.

(I can only imagine how happy he must be, persecuted at last!)

Scott said...

I'll admit that ElderChild has me confused. Untold paragraphs written, yet I have no idea if he really thinks I am somehow propogating a three-headed pagan God. Huh? And I thought that *I* sometimes had trouble writing concise, understandable statements.

I bet there are some awesome stories to be told about the simple life in Mexico, though, ElderChild.

ElderChild said...

Truth will always confuse those who have not received "a love of The Truth" for they are of those who "love this world and their own life in, and of it" ;-(

Braindirtyed to the utmost, they deny The Truth that "the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one" for they have embraced this world's version of 'ease of life' which is destroying Creation(water, air, land, vegetation, creatures) and perverting that which is Spirit(Light, Truth, Life, Love, Peace, Grace, Mercy, Faith,,,, all that is Good) ;-(

Eutychus said...

Isn't it interesting that the very definition of "receiving the knowledge of the truth" and "having a love for the truth" is "being able to understand what the heck ElderC is talking about." Asking him to explain merely means that you are not worth explaining to. Such a convenient way to avoid loving, simply condemn everyone without even bothering to teach them the truth.

Eutychus said...

And actually I thought I would find it very interesting hearing what he has to say. I was all ears! turns out he's just another hater using God as the ultimate weapon.

ElderChild said...

Your own conscience convicts you and your own words will condemn you ;-(

Truth will always confuse those who have not received "a love of The Truth" for they are of those who "love this world and their own life in, and of it" ;-(

Braindirtyed to the utmost, they deny The Truth that "the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one" for they have embraced this world's version of 'ease of life' which is destroying Creation(water, air, land, vegetation, creatures) and perverting that which is Spirit(Light, Truth, Life, Love, Peace, Grace, Mercy, Faith,,,, all that is Good) ;-(

Brad said...

Uh, sorry man, none of out here really know what you're trying to say. Except you don't like us much. Okay, got that.

Redacticus said...

Okay, enough. Let the man go about his grim business. Thread closed.

We pray you find life, EC.

ElderChild said...

The Life is received, not found!

So it is your "spirituality" is of the flesh, perverse, destructive
and of "the father of lies" ;-(

Yet there is hope!

For Miracles do happen.......

Redacticus said...

Okey-dokey, ElderChild, we'll just notify Jesus that he was mistaken when he said "whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it." [Mt 16:5]

So I suppose that Jesus Christ's "spirituality is of the flesh, perverse, destructive
and of "the father of lies"?

Will you be judged by the measure you judge by?

ElderChild said...

Sadly, the religious ones have not partaken of the "strong meat(yet you eat meat)" so they never experience and realize the difference between 'judgement' and "discerment" ;-(

And even though they received their first breath in the natural life given them, they believe they can find The Life, Life which only begins when one receives The Holy, Set Apart Spirit.......

So it is that they are held captive by the literal colored marks written on a dead tree and bound in a book ;-(

Sadder yet when one considers that even the marks themselves have been perverted in accordance with the religious dogma of the translators ;-(

Yet there is hope!

For Miracles do happen.......

Craig said...

Well, aside from having absolutely no idea what our friend EC is saying (beyond a vague impression that I'm being ripped on), this is just more fun than human beings ought to be allowed to have. . .

But he never fails to fill up your comment-space, eh?

ElderChild said...

Truth testified: "The WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one".......

Truth also testified: "Evil men and seducers will get worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived".......

So it remains, "Woe unto you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep".......

Simply, sad for you ;-(

Anonymous said...

When Elder Child quotes scripture it's revelation and Truth. But if anyone else refers to it it's just a bunch of "literal colored marks written on a dead tree and bound in a book."

Even when Joe B affirmed what he said and asked him to explain what he believes about Jesus, even in that he "discerned" that he is bound in religous tradition and has not received the truth, and likened him to a pagan. The dude is deep-fried in pride and can't see thru his own homemade religios breading.

ElderChild said...

i share that which i have "seen(experienced) and heard(received)" not just read and/or studied for would be theo'ry'logians lack discernment and liken unto the pharisee's of old they know naught but the letter.......

Truth testified: "The WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one".......

And that which is called the u.s. of a. is just another kingdom in 'd'evil spirits world.......

Truth also testified: "Evil men and seducers will get worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived".......

So it is that there is a multiple choice of so-called churches, mosques, sinagogues, etc.......

So it remains, "Woe unto you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep".......

"Woe unto you who are rich(ease of life) for you have received your reward".......

"Woe unto you when all men speak well of you".......

Simply, sad for you ;-(

Yet there is hope!

For Miracles do happen.......

Joe B said...

I have to say I find E.C. kind of interesting. He is radically anti-religion, yet in virtually every comment he is denouncing people for not conforming to his obscure standard. His "sad wink" signature ;-( is such a fitting enigma. He is sad over our destruction, but there is that perverse wink. He is like Jonah sitting on the hilltop watching for Nineva to be destroyed.

Anyway, since I am religious non-conformist myself, I'm interested in how non-conformists tend to cross the line into militant heresy or defiant immorality. It's scary how passion becomes bitterness & vision becomes delusion & courage becomes viciousness. It is Love that tempers our passion and removes the scales from our eyes.

It could happen to anyone except for LOVE. It's better to love your neighbor than to be "right".

ElderChild said...

Sadly, seems you have never "experienced The Messiah and The Power that raised Him from among the dead" and so it is you remain among them ;-(

Love IS speaking Truth no matter the consequences.......

However, you liken unto those who with "good words and fair speech seek to deceive the hearts of the simple" do naught but consider consequences ;-(

The Messiah He Loved, and so it was that He declared the theo'ry'loginans(pharisee) of His days on earth to be but "whited sepulchures full of dead men's bones" whose father was "the father of lies".......

And so it is with the religious braindirtyed theo'ry'logians of this day, only as testified, "they have waxed worse and worse" for some two thousand years now ;-(

Yet there is hope!

For Miracles do happen.......

Hope is there would be those who experience The Miracle that is receiving "a love of The Truth" for the will see The Light that is The Messiah and come out of the darkness that is this wicked world and it's systems of religion.......

Scott said...

;-(

I'm going to go ahead and close the comments now. Love ya, EC.